This episode of The Lesbian Review Podcast features something new – 2 Reviewers And The Author Talk About Breaking Character
Sheena is joined by Tara Scott and Lee Winter today to talk about Breaking Character.
In this podcast we talk about
- Summer – is she the nicest girl next door ever?
- Elizabeth – is she an ice queen?
- Grace – misunderstood starlet or meanie?
- The mysterious Rachel Cho – do we ever actually meet her?
- Are there really autograph hunters?
- How much research Winter did about filming and being on set?
- The sex scene being the big turning point for both characters
- Fan-fiction and whether or not Winter has any fan fix written based on her books
PLUS Tara and Lee Winter invent a new way of measuring Ice Queens and dub it The Winter Scale
The book we discussed in this podcast
Breaking Character by Lee Winter
Publisher Ylva Publishing
Life has become a farcical mess for icy British A-lister Elizabeth Thornton. America’s most-hated villain stars in a top-rated TV medical drama that she hates. Now, she’s been romantically linked to her perky, new co-star, Summer, due to the young woman’s clumsiness. As a closeted actress, that’s the last thing Elizabeth needs. If she could just get her dream movie role, life would be so much better. The only problem is that the eccentric French film-maker offering it insists on meeting her “girlfriend”, Summer, first.Summer Hayes is devastated when her co-star shuns her for accidentally sparking rumors they’re lovers. Now the so-called British Bitch has the audacity to ask Summer to pretend to be her girlfriend to get her a role? Elizabeth doesn’t even like Summer! Oh, how she’d love to tell her no. And Summer definitely would if it wasn’t for the fact she’s maybe a tiny bit in love with the impossible woman.A lesbian celebrity romance about gaining love, losing masks, and trying to stick to the script.
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Lee Winter Online
Please note, this is an automatically generated transcript so some words are incorrect
hi this is Sheena I just want to point out unfortunately we had a little bit of sound difficulties with this one but bear in mind we were recording Canada, South Africa and Australia all at the same time so there was bound to be a little bit of whoopsie unfortunately it happened with Lee Winter’s audio but please bear with us we did everything we could to fix it
hi there I’m Sheena and this is The Lesbian Review Podcast. this podcast is a spin-off of the popular review site TheLesbianReview.com where we review the best books movies and music was leading lesbian bi or queer woman the goal of this podcast is to bring you closer to the base queer media and give you access to interviews with people who are behind the scenes in creating it today I’m joined by Tara Scott Tinley Winton we’re doing something we’ve never done before we’re talking about a book and I’m talking with my fellow reviewer and we’re discussing it with the author so that’s pretty cool Lee thank you for joining me today hey and Tara thank you so much for joining me today glad to be here okay cool so we’re talking about breaking character now Tara did an awesome review for us for TLR but I read it afterwards and I’ve kind of fallen in love with this book there’s just so much to it there’s so many layers there’s so many interesting things and so I wants to get them both on here so that we can dissect and just really get into the nitty gritties of it I’m going to give you a warning here if you haven’t read this book there will be spoilers so stop the podcast read the book then come back because you’re gonna want to hear some of the cool stuff we’re talking about today let’s start with you can you give us a synopsis of this book like what’s it about for those that haven’t read it so that they can be enticed and then go from readers well here’s the blurb actually writes I see British a-lister Elizabeth Thornton America’s most hated villain stars in a top rated TV medical drama that she hates now she’s been romantically to the perky new co-star summer due to the young woman’s clumsiness there’s a closeted actress that’s the last thing Elisabeth needs if just get her dream movie real life would be so much better the only problem is that the eccentric French filmmaker offering at it insists on meeting her girlfriend summer first summer Hayes is devastated when her co-star shams over accidentally sparking rumors they’re lovers now the so-called British bitch has the audacity to our summer to pretend to be her girlfriend to get a role because if it doesn’t even like summer oh how she’d love to tell them no and summer definitely would if it wasn’t for the fifties maybe a tiny little bit in love would be impossible woman and lesbian celebrity romance back any love looting masks and trying to stick to the script that’s pretty accurate well then on an accurate synopsis if you can’t write and I could sir on synopsis there’s something wrong with you often I think well that’s a debate for another day okay so let’s start with the characters so the main girl next door character’s name is summer and three words I would use to describe his clumsy brilliance and kind is she perhaps the nicest girl next door ever unless Vic this is the question I’m posing to you guys what do you think Tara I don’t know the thing that I like about her is that she is incredibly kind but she also has a massive backbone and she gets underestimated because of her looks but she’s a lot smarter than anyone gives her credit for so while she is she’s very nice she’s incredibly thoughtful she you know remembers her girlfriends former assistants son’s birthday to get them a present for like that’s just how she is but at the same time she doesn’t take from people and she knows how to take those perceptions and work with them to her advantage to get to the the ends that she wants and so like yes she’s a girl next door but I don’t actually see her as a typical girl next door okay Lea what do you think I read camera um I also and she’s sort of fierceness to away if she sees injustice and she sees it several times and she has before I even though your sister and everyone no no no it’s just you know but she can’t resist writing a role and maybe that makes her too nice or too sweet I actually just think that’s just part of her character part of her drawer is that she just he just likes to stand up for the underdogs and stand up for you know the right thing in that I actually lay a lot of that down that’s guys feet mother who is just a really good human being and has raised her well see I agree with both of you but I think that that does make her the nicest girl next door because she does have the backbone and yet she’s never arrogant she’s never aggressive or frustrated it doesn’t come across over so yes she is unleased amazing but the way she handles it makes a really mature amazing kind of character she is the epitome of what I’d like to be ultimately in my life if that makes sense that’s really cool yeah she definitely has poise because like you can even tell when she’s experiencing something really unpleasant she keeps her together every time right yeah which like is not the easiest thing to do right like she’s just a really good grown up like sure she can play those young adult roles but one of my favorite moments is when she tells best like you can’t toy with me like I’m a person with real feelings like she’s actually a better adult in that moment than Bess has ever been with grace because grace messes with best at every turn and summer knows herself well enough she’s so self-aware and I think that is down to Skye like she’s been she’s clearly been raised so well that she is able to have that entirely mature conversation whereas she puts her own self interest first like she knows that she has to take care of herself because nobody else is gonna do it at that moment I think part of it might also be being atomic do you do have to grow very fast and there are a lot of crossroads and you can either turn into that bratty spoil person who you can have a really good parent who sits against as local people are going to try and use you to take advantage of what you feel 24 all this thing that I think from day one sky and and Brock have been you know ruined on top of them you did it really well but that’s why she gets a maturity from I believe she started so young and had to be watchful and aware so young I love that you introduced the family dynamics so there’s small snippets throughout the story where summer talks about her parents so one of the things has brought teachers her to fall correctly because she’s so clumsy that she can’t do the karate and things he’s trying to teach her but at least he can teach her to fall and that’s such a beautiful father/daughter sort of thing yeah it adds a layer in a dynamic that’s that makes the character exactly what she just said yeah okay so let’s talk about Elizabeth is she an ice queen Oh nope she’s an introvert she’s British yeah but she she’s not she’s not guarded as much as she’s private and those are entirely different things like if you look at say the brutal truth Elena is definitely an ice queen she’s that like super prickly on purpose to keep people at bay Elizabeth isn’t prickly she’s just not outgoing she’s kind of shy and she doesn’t have that same like ability to go out and make friends with everybody that summer has she’s never tried to cultivate it maybe she could have she tried harder but she’s not like purposefully being an asshole to keep people away from her which is why I think she’s not an ice cream okay except that I think she is an ice queen and I’ll tell you why for me the definition of an ice queen is someone who stand or Fisher called it first and then Thor’s because of the intervention of a love interest now when Elizabeth means to be or not whether she’s thrust into that role by the circumstances of her shooting and that kind of thing she is she’s very guarded and she’s expects the worst from people and she doesn’t let herself look how long it takes her to tell summer that she’s a lesbian even are the summer came out to her no that’s very guarded we still don’t think she’s an ice queen and I carry disagree with you um I actually wrote it thinking oh she’s very British and reserved everything like Paris it but I also was aware but very British very guarded very reserved would come across as I see to an American audience so yes she’s a very much an ice queen so it just depends on your I don’t know British oh I wouldn’t really see as I squeeze behind fact that Americans have met them about she was so cold oh my goodness and that’s just you know I think regional I might also have my view colored by the fact that I see Li winter ice Queen’s as Elena Bartel and Catherine Ayers and that’s like like you have your ice queen type and then I just don’t think she fits in that I mean this is Kinsey spectrum of ice Queen’s [Laughter] excellent okay so shall we called the winter can we call it the winter scale I like winter scale okay well she’s definitely on the winter scale somewhere better be quick he hits us up and tell us what do you think Ishi and ice queen or not it’s terrorised am i right or is Lee winter being very sweet to both of us okay I think she’s like a – if like six is ultimate ice queen she’s like a two on the scale why would 6y6 why be Beijing to 6 because the Kinsey scale is between one and six so we’re just adapting the Kinsey scale to the winter scale okay got it that’s the end of my day where I’m at on the six being expertise see like Mount Everest being slightly cool toads anyway where do you put it has been for Wow yes I’d put it in the middle because she’s not the iciest ice queen for sure and that’s probably why I like her but she’s she’s definitely got some frost happening me summer does not walk away unscathed hey that’s true a little bit frost hmm all right now let’s talk about one of my favorite characters grace I love grace because I thought she added such an interesting dynamic to the book and Tara Tara has strong feelings of the better tell it tell us Tara Shh she’s one of my least favorite characters of all time I hate her so much she is a terrible she is a terrible person she is I was gonna say selfishness well no she’s like she’s a textbook narcissist like she is actually like if you just look it up in the whatever they call it the DSM whatever like that is her she is horrible to Elizabeth she is horrible to the rest of the team I was not sad to see her go and I would have been fine to find out that she died in obscurity you’re welcome well it’s yeah we have feelings I don’t like people being mean to other people and she was really mean to someone that I loved a whole lot so therefore I her she was such a fabulous character to have in the book though because Elizabeth’s feelings for her makes summer’s feelings for Elizabeth but because the dynamics were so different because the characters themselves were so different it was such a fascinating thing to watch play out what could it be I mean you know did actually happen yeah the difference between someone who has empathy and someone who does not have a capacity for empathy not just that but okay so from so the way Simon handled Elizabeth was a heck of a lot more mature than the way Elizabeth handled grace oh sorry I meant the other way around because I know that’s why I’m saying yeah yeah from the the receivers perspective Elizabeth was much nice to some of them grace was to Elizabeth but I just thought the whole dynamic was so interesting because it was like two parallel stories and you know I’m sure when she did this because he was thinking I want the reader to really see and root for Elizabeth to to drop Grace and and say some of you are actually the love of my life well I saw embrace as pitiful narcissists exactly paris’s I also wanted her to be an embodiment all the bad things Hollywood does for human being as well I like they person would automatically put it like race if they went to things that grace did which she’s put her own sociopathy or whatever that is but she is what happens when you put someone with a bad personality in a terrible environment for them and then hit blend and she spent her entire life trying to feel back to the worship how woodchip she was in England and it’s just not to me and she just kept persisting thinking well surely they’ll see my glory any day now and goes the world she gets and the more horrible she suddenly starts to become with Elizabeth when she feels her slipping away and I promise you even though it’s not the book she wasn’t like this at start when she was strong and powerful and felt like she had it all together she was actually really nice and dirty and probably a pretty good mental but it all went horribly wrong as her sense of self started slipping and she was trying to hold on to things too tightly and it just got worse on where that cynicism brew and she became what she wants at the end very sad in a big door and I actually did Elizabeth was dinner it’s when she said I can feel sorry for someone who ever meant for her to go that deep and still not want to have confidence oh she was more forgiving I think that someone notes in her position might be how long was Grace supposed to have been in the States I couldn’t quite Oh Bryce would have been there for the same amount of time is Elizabeth or just slightly longer so in seven years okay yeah I mean seven years of like little to no work can definitely screw with your head yeah especially if your whole identity is being built around not either worth but being worshipped so her whole identity until that point when she got the Hollywood was I am a golden cornice and then immediately she’s nothing you have nothing new to Bridget you told you if it whatever and it just watered down to the point where she was a horrible human being I did like how summer figured her out immediately like he took yeah I just like ya know I did like it right yeah yeah I liked that summer was so savvy that it took like what four minutes for her to figure out exactly who grace was and exactly what she was doing some people read a room really well-known I mean Alex was also well aware of what was going on but also again summer grew up as a child stuff and she got very very good at looking for the motive ways that person being nice ways that person doing that I do think that really helped to be aware the ripples and her more than say the guys were he didn’t seem where I switched on to it so grace never made Elizabeth feel awful about the attraction she just kind of used it as a worship if you like which I appreciated she just what can I get out of this she bought for herself well I can just be wasn’t a good thing there’s a very famous I won’t name names actress had a phrase it but she famously loved her lesbian fans didn’t have a lesbian on the body but she loved their worship and that was a very big thing for her she does love being worshipped then Tim you know she wouldn’t ever play game she didn’t even see herself in that way in any way table my god her lesbian fans they would just mm-hmm some people like that that’s Grayson and just amplifying that I like to character from the point of view I thought it gave depth to the story and I like the parallels between her and Elizabeth and Elizabeth and summer I just thought it was interesting okay let’s talk about the mysterious Rachael Cho so raychel Cho is her yeah Rachel was the agent in Delvian dal Ryan was the manager Yeah right okay so there’s this mysterious Rachel Cho who’s this lesbian who doesn’t want to her stores to be lesbian and she’s quite a strong character in the book except you never actually meet her you sort of hear about her or she’s on the phone yeah that’s such an interesting thing why did you choose to do that as opposed to ever having a meeting with Rachel or actually us meeting her it was a really simple reason is because I just didn’t want to have a Lavigne and Rachel like there’s two similar kind of sounding role people who won’t be in Hollywood I just didn’t want to have to people being confusing so I kept one at a distance which was raped or who was the more hard-ass of them all and belvane forward because she was more of a friend anyway so she could be the I love you best but you would have you know listen to me now sort of jets butt raped was like Oh fix it he was honey sweetie so yeah I just didn’t want to similar characters but in all the research that I did I found that woman is suspect you would definitely have at least two people like at least the agent and the manager you would just have one so I had to have okay all right now let’s swing across to the dedication I’m going to read your dedication because I loved it so I thought it was awesome so all the actresses who put themselves out there over and over for their craft I had no idea how exposing and confronting the job was until I dug beneath the superficial crust and began to research what acting really is to be so vulnerable and open oneself up to the constant scrutiny demands and critique is staggering to be expected often to be one’s body is as well as one’s emotions and souls and somehow remain unaffected is staggering there takes such courage so let’s talk about this let’s talk about some of the research you did that gave you this dedication time googling how do you go about doing a sexy verses once and the guys didn’t seem to affect about the women the range of how they dealt with them how they experienced it was quite different and a lot of you felt very vulnerable and by the time I read about two dozen stories of how they print and how they felt how they went through it all and how sometimes some bad things happen I was feeling so empathic towards them I was like oh you poor thing I just I think quite a lot actually in the stories between that sex scene because I just felt so so bad this is what we expect women especially to do they crust like mmm I felt a lot I’m really good at felt a lot and some women told stories about I remember one story still stick to me this actress was saying here they had an extra and he was supposed to be more extras not the right word but he was a big player so rough anonymous sex with this actress his father movie and he just was getting his rocks off on and he was treating it like and she said I came away feeling like a being assaulted and when I complained to the director in my agent they both just said oh you know he’s just no just move on just forget it and she said I just didn’t know what to do with this you know I thought I really felt bad for some of these women I really do it’s pretty good funding what they have to go through Wow yeah you don’t actually think about it him it’s part of the story and six is such an expected part of media these days I had a interesting chat with a friend of mine who said I felt so then after reading a book about how I view sex and movies that I bought should I feel guilty enjoying a 16 in the marina and I said they can still have sex and movies but you just got a question why it’s a certain age every little thing why do you have to go to the fall for extreme you know every single you know I mean we’ve got imaginations I’m not talking fake I mean just you know do we can we turn it down slightly this is a break she was fine with that I mean that does make sense and okay so one of the other things you mentioned speaking of your research is an autograph hunter so they are approached in the cafe with by a woman with a photograph of summer and she wants an autograph and summer has a really interesting reaction to it and the whole thing was that this woman is gonna sell the autograph for money like you know this is how she makes money do these people actually exist how did you find out about these people yeah an actress who was constantly being played by this one quote-unquote fan who just it was funny how she always happened to have a black-and-white photo of her or her co-stars if she was out with him every time she turned around and and she caught a sight of the car and there was a whole bunch of these photos just like every type of person from this show so this woman would sell them but I have seen fan conventions where people would get signed photos offices and then an hour later would be up on eBay that kind of thing so yeah you know the role for these star experience they just kinda make it quit it wouldn’t even occur to me that these people existed but it does like it makes sense when I read it I was like yeah I can totally believe this so how much research did you do generally about filming and being on set and so on because you don’t really have a background in that right no I mean when I was at uni I did study one unit of the video production but it’s not really what I think I mean I remember having memories editing a production putting that together but no basically I researched every single thing I could a in the life of a director about deucey i watched videos all that kind of stuff so yeah that’s pretty much it and also access to a very kind actress who was helping me out on the inside who tell me if I went a little bit too off the rails on some of my detail she said man that’s all what happens anyway cuz it read very accurately yeah I’m pleased prefered that but I’ve heard that from a few people and I’m just glad that Google was my friend and didn’t lead me astray you’re listening to the lesbian talk show the lesbians will choke on your hub of podcast information ok so a big turning point in this book for both characters was the shooting of the 16 right so I would spend some time on that they go off to the middle of nowhere and there’s a sex scene that they have to shoot where summer who’s the sweetest girl next door is playing last and Elizabeth is the main character of this phone it’s so interesting for me that during the 16 summer was really struggling because she didn’t want to take advantage so it was like a complete reversal of what you were talking about just now where the actresses felt completely vulnerable right yeah Tara did this scene stick out for you specifically because for me this was a big moment in the book I mean it takes up at quite a chunk of the book to you I’m trying to remember the first time I read it but it was basically just like two days of any time I wasn’t at work or asleep I was reading this book so kind of all is a blur at this point but it I see what you mean like it’s a massive turning point in the nature of their relationship because they’re they’re like friendly colleagues before that they’re like they’re I wouldn’t even say they were quite friends before that point summer knew how she felt because she’d felt that way for you know more than a decade but it was really kind of that point when summer gets really vulnerable and confesses why she’s having such a hard time with the scene and there was that attraction and she doesn’t want to make best uncomfortable I really like seeing how that it was like a flip was switched invest his head it was like she was able to start examining you know why is she more comfortable around summer than she is with anyone else why is she able to open up to her why is she able to get like yeah it takes her a while after that to say that she’s a lesbian but she’s still much more open and vulnerable with her than she is with anyone else in her life and that that scene was really kind of pivotal for that and it also like was it Alex I think it was Alex who said like she’s gonna blow your world open and that’s kind of the moment when it happens like it’s that super sexy explosion where it’s like oh everything I thought was true is not and like the world is upside down and cats or dogs and I don’t know anything anymore because even when grace comes like she still kind of sort of feels that tug but also that like who do you think you are talking the way you talk about one of the nicest people I’ve ever met in my life like it’s also all tied into her figuring out exactly who grace is and it’s like it’s it’s not just a it’s not just a turning point for their relationship it’s a turning point for Elizabeth I think hmm its effect to Elizabeth that summer is nice so someone’s telling you completely opposite thing you suddenly start to question everything wait person who I looked up to and I thought was gospel does that mean everything she said is now suspect and it really wasn’t interesting Tony yeah when they’re first doing the sex scene it’s the most awkward horrible cringe-worthy thing in the book I just I wants to close my eyes because I felt so humiliated for the characters like I didn’t want to return don’t make me read read this because shame you know I don’t watch them go through this right I I did love how the director was like something is wrong I don’t know what’s wrong you guys are messed up you know what’s wrong go fix it just go away I don’t care what you do fix it come back what it’s fixed don’t come back until it’s fixed you have ten minutes and it was so also can we just can we talk about that guy for a second I know we’re talking about the sex scene but he is wonderful is all I want to say I love that weird French man okay but wait wait don’t go away from me because in that moment where he says something’s wrong go fix it he also talks about that I think he says at that movie with the blue title or something and then the story of the strange gases is that true well it’s blue is the warmest color right yeah there’s a big scale at the time oh boy a bussiness podcast if he had my book but blue is the warmest color the two actresses who had a very long very graphic sex scene in this French movie after the movie was shot after the one that pound wore said we felt exposed and vulnerable and tane demanded of and used and it was absolutely horrible to whisk secrets of my life and the French director was stunned and appalled and shot and he had no idea and he said you have forever sullied my words my foot my film saying well I’ve lived from that know I’m never gonna know which gave context also to why he specifically went to them as a couple and I really appreciated this because before that I was just like this dude is so weird you know I can see why he and sky vibrate on the same frequency they’re eccentric yes I love that line I love that line so much ok so then then they go off off to the the awkwardness that is horrible horrible cringe-worthy terrible and then they sits in the trailer and then there’s a moment where Elizabeth says to summer what’s going on you have to tell me right and at that point summer has no choice do they have half an hour to fix the all the problems between them which seems like an impossibility oh I’ll say but it’s gonna get fired and so the only choice she really has at that point is to confess her feelings for Elizabeth but what was an interesting thing for me about the scene is Elizabeth does not come out of the closets at this point summer does so I mean it’s a natural thing for somebody to say oh I’m gay and then the other person says oh I’m gay too like let’s wait some you know happy flags why did Elizabeth at this point not choose to come out to summer and leave her thinking that this was all one-sided thing I’m gonna guess it’s the same reason why she didn’t tell Rachel to go pound salt when Rachel told her to stay away from summer on said what reason was that well it’s that like it’s so in like it’s just so engrained at this point to just keep that part hidden it’s like yep okay nope that’s the script we’re sticking to it we never deviate this is just something we’re never gonna do because it takes her a while to come out to summer for sure but like even when in the follow up short story even when she decides to come out publicly she’s not comfortable with it and she acknowledges she would never ever ever be comfortable with it that’s just who she is at her core like it’s a commitment that she’s kind of made for what like 20 years she that’s a very big thing that’s it’s who she is in temps and of it is I’ve only known summer a month and summit could blow on off to the you know and she’s just told someone her biggest secret and then she goes into the you know and I just keep adding myself every a actress who said I’m gay has she got to have proof in this old somewhere that this one’s the one before I actually or this one’s gonna be different special important and I’m not just gonna be two ships and then I mean actors and actresses they form these really close bonds and then suddenly bonds are gone and the show’s over and then these people that they were so close to they’ve been gone so for someone like a little bit she had to trust that this was a person who would be in her life for a while she had to trust that I was discreet and she had to also ever come her own in Fallujah and she hadn’t even told Brian and Rowan both of whom are also gay and like some of her oldest friends yes so it’s not like she was singling summer out either she really had a lot like Mike I say mighty percent was who she is and ten percent was well I don’t know if summer’s gonna be around the next year so that moment and that choice and the vulnerability that somebody is the thing is sure Brian and whatever were friends with her and that’s all great but there was no vulnerability no right there was huge vulnerability from Somers points when they were shooting the scene she really just like completely opened herself up to being destroyed so this Beth choice right there is why I say she’s a nice I see that I see that okay was a hard choice and I can imagine a lot of people wouldn’t make the same choice as well but this has got a lot of introvert she is really yeah she’s had walls for life she wasn’t yet ready to have that conversation she did say at the time this secret has the power to hurt and she had been through so much crap over the British bitch stuff there I just don’t think she wouldn’t have every single part of a levee and if so much it turned out to be indiscreet well and I mean programming that we have kind of look as we all have our own internal programming based on whether it’s like how we’ve been raised other experiences in our lives that can be a real bitch to overcome yeah yes yeah it’s huge you see that from people primitive latest film is – my god they haven’t so heard that overcome any programming so if you were at the height of your programming and so I said well I’m gay you wouldn’t you’re first the wouldn’t be well I’m bi know you’d be like that’s nice lovely and a few for being a free more you probably more in well at least this was my experience before I was ready to come out I was very and I was from a religious space but I was very like oh you’re gay I’m going to run in the opposite direction in case you know I’m gay too you yeah that’s a reaction that you see another reaction you see I was second a bit under ability summer and she tells a story about me she was very young her first kiss was on screen actually macaulay culkin in that b-movie I can never remember the name of it my girl wasn’t it I go yeah and years later he said that that was his first onscreen kiss didn’t even get that to himself and really think about what it must be like for charts does all of them have if this kisses stolen pretty much because Hollywood has this weird thing about romanticizing children and thinking well that would have been a really impactful moment for someone wouldn’t it I could see why she had a lot of vulnerability involving a sick scene and it wasn’t old death because this was Elizabeth it was also she had a very very strong sense of justice about consent mmm-hmm which makes her such a timely character fool for where we are now in the world yeah well it’s interesting because it also brings up the point that consent is not just a male/female thing and if you’re a woman you still have to think about consent yes yes absolutely okay so then then they go on now when some is cracked open they manage to go on and have the most glorious 16 on earth because they did a second take and then they did close ups during that scene summerses with instead of the character’s name yeah else and that was interesting for me so let’s talk about that I have so many feelings on this Sarah well she does something similar to in Bess’s last seen on their TV show and she almost forgets that she’s acting and it’s a character and she blurts out for the whole world to hear that she loves her and it was you know everybody could read it as the character saying it to the other character but it was actually summer saying it to pass and there’s just no I guess they just have this kind of intense chemistry going on that kind of pulls her out of herself yeah there’s a lot of blurring of the lines I think um I think Elizabeth is somewhat weakness in that regard I think she doesn’t do this on the radio I think if there’s one thing you manage to really showcase and this is how professional summer actually is and how good she is it’s at acting to the point for people that actually realize she’s doing it yeah she’s very smart so Lee you mentioned fan fiction a couple of times in this book and fan fiction and social media and so on was actually a big reason why the two main characters got their own lesbian storyline on the TV show right so let’s talk about fan fiction I know you are a huge fan of fan fiction yeah but have you brought it up in any of your other books is this the first book I think is the first book of Inchon billion and there’s nothing deeper then it really seemed to suit the characters I mean you get those two people sparking off each other in a TV show which I had mine was sort of like a Grey’s Anatomy spell TV show then absolutely a fanfiction would follow it would actually be almost dishonest not to have it mentioned if I suddenly pretended don’t know what online pulling you know come on giving themselves the eye I mean you know and figure I do I’d be writing my real yes it’s not to include that that was all the voice and suddenly turning a page you’re gonna be an interesting for anything or mine or anything it was just those two really limp sort of that line of you know narrative to it you know he wouldn’t have made sense in any oh sorry to say it wouldn’t it made sense than any of your other books unless like Lauren turned out to be addicted to it or something like that but I think the fanfic started getting cranked out right after the episode with the green fingers aired like you know that for sure is the moment it started being written there was somebody who was like that’s it someone would have seen them stepping inside the space inside the space is what’s out of this one Queen thing in once at a time and it was just that was the moment everything green thing is any of the end there there was like one of them actually had a title green fingers was in the title of the story I just know it hasn’t been written but so we have people actually ever written fanfiction about your fiction which is my superhero and all that had a ending ending for me one threat and no actual follow through so you know write some fanfiction I think you write some hunter fanfiction people in the story within the story because you know two stories but the stories is not enough well this is so confusing but okay let’s talk about you human you have some of the funniest lines in this book one of them is like Chloe says to summer why do you look like a constipated possum Chloe’s a New Zealander and possums are rife in New Zealand yeah in Australia our possum is a problem in Australia as well yeah it’s the roof space in the mail they win so yeah where they also imported for hunting purposes I wouldn’t know I haven’t done my research into ah well as far as I know they were imported into New Zealand for hunting but the problem is that there are no natural predators in New Zealand and so possums have just thrived so the lion why do you look like a constipated possum from a New Zealand it was just beautiful another very funny example of your humor is summer is thinking about Elizabeth and then she says and then there was that voice could have voice get you pregnant someone’s due any day if that was true so let’s talk about humor and your your work you can’t help but adding in these delightful little quips yeah kind of me you know I’m my girlfriend but not taking things seriously enough so I tried serious my real life I didn’t my riding mask people would just be dumb say stupid things well I love it terribly any other points you want to cover I don’t know I just write I just love this book I think oh now I got a fangirl and you’re actually here it’s embarrassing I like doing this so she could be plotted it this way you’re so mean diabolical Shana anyway so I mean it’s not exactly a secret that I’ve been a fan of your books cuz I read the red files and I wouldn’t shut up about it ever I think I just talked non-stop about it for two years but I guess the thing that I appreciate about your books is that like you get better from book to book and this was kind of having this and under your skin come out in the same year it’s like yeah you you hit another level and I really enjoyed reading it and they were two of the most like unput down Apple books that I read this year so I guess if anybody’s listening and you kept listening even though you haven’t read the book and even though he spoiled everything shame on you but go read the book anyway because you’re still going to love it because we still didn’t do it justice well we didn’t spoil everything we didn’t talk about the ending edible I mean it’s a romance they know the ending they end up together see not useful spoiler actually about the anything I almost had a different anything slightly slightly slightly different ending but originally I had in mind the greats would slightly redeem herself by being the one to give a glowing verbal reference of a moment about that internship and then I took it out because that would just make grace the ending and I know she’d love that that’s not really what the book cause I’ve had to be some it was just interesting that after all that gracefully be the right thing by them see when she did that but read his vote no that no that’s out of character why would she do that for summer because it was true yeah the reason that because also appreciate but yeah she might he just done it because it was true act and a reason to lie you know grace wasn’t a liar she wasn’t a liar she was a manipulator but she she was a liar she absolutely was she said that she got she said that she is the reason that Elizabeth got Rachel as the agent yes she’s a big bad blood who hated summer that that’s the thing I don’t understand like she hated summer so I don’t see why she would have done it unless she’s just and unless she’s just a chaos demon who does things for no knowable reason I think don’t forget grace is back to being herself she’s she’s feeling safe and glorious again she loved once more so she doesn’t he is brittle and you know it’s amazing at dinner she can be when you go a lot of something it’s actually hard to be generous when you don’t so she’s got a lot of you know regulation again and she’s been her zone so she can afford to throw a few breadcrumbs summers way and like I say to go cat so you need not worry it’s fine you can cling push it to your heart I do like the idea of her being a chaos demon though I’m gonna go think about that more yeah I think you missed the brilliance that was her character because yes she’s nasty and all of that but she does and one point when she sits down and she’s talking to you Lizabeth she’s so honest that I was just like it’s amazing think of it this way maybe I didn’t miss the brilliance of Li winter because I ended up hating a character that much what about that really hate grace and for this for the narcissus well and she’s quite high she’s not quite as high as manga but she’s high I kept it low Lewis well it was a psychopath wasn’t she yes yeah was a psychopath but she was also narcissist so you know talking about that in a different podcast you know there how about that I’m just saying like go go to the go to the backlog so I’m very excited because you’re currently writing a spin-off of this book and we get to see Alex have a happy evolved I assume yes that’s correct it’s called attaining the script and she even it’s a bit of a problem we won’t go into why but she ends up taking the worst script ever to do this movie in New Zealand which ends up starring Chloe in she’s an mistress of the forest it’s as bad as it sounds possibly worse than it sounds and you get Skye he comes back she’s doing the costumes so you had a really interesting dynamic my Skye’s being a mother hen with Chloe and she people wrote Alex as well and you also get to meet the local cop Sam who just really doesn’t like this movie or how it makes the local women bad because there’s terrible costumes that’s the force collectors them so it’s just it’s really funny I mean I think so who’s the love interest and I mean that’s enough Sam I call it Sam Samantha the local culture okay shame so poor Chloe who’s hatre sexual and I feel bad for her about that because yeah is still single that’s recently she has basketball yeah local in this book as well it’s just the dillion’s okay with it I mean you know she is set for two not fooling in love with women so yeah she’s really me absolutely as you should Terra I guess people can’t see when you put my hands up and shrug because it’s a podcast that we don’t do I just put my hands up and so already see what we see i I do have a little bit of regret that I didn’t make you know three times in my facebook we were straight so I can’t change that now we don’t always know it’s true we do maybe maybe she’s Demi who knows who knows well anyway she’s she’s she’s pretty straight missile yeah it’s in the local pop local cop who on the first date in New Zealand exactly almost kind of runs over so it was it was an unfortunate downhill from there as it should thank you so much both for joining me today it was such a blast talking about breaking character thanks for having us yeah sign here what she said okay so Lee where can people find you online and where can they buy your amazing books and what should they read if they’ve read breaking character and loved it they should read the brutal truth and online I’m on Facebook and Instagram is Lee winters I’m also I have my website Lee with the author calm and you can buy my book to Amazon and it will for the publishing house as well alright and terror we can people find you online they can find me on Twitter tara md scott and they can catch all my reviews at the lesbian review and if you are on the pod beans site you can click the little link on the side that says let’s do book because that’s my podcast where you can catch me talking to authors and reviewers about les effect that they love this has been the lesbian review podcast you can find this and other awesome shows by searching for the lesbian talk show anyway you get your podcasts we’re even on Spotify now find more information on our guests in the show notes as well as links to what we spoke about on this episode and if you’ve enjoyed this podcast and want to see us creating more awesome content then consider becoming a patron not only does this mean we can keep on doing this but you will get exclusive podcasts that do not appear on the channel you can find out all about it on patreon.com slash the lesbian talk show the link is in the show notes that’s all for this episode bye