Getting Your Amazon Keywords Right is the second part of a two part series of Anne Hagan Presents Killing It With Keywords
In this two part series of Anne Hagan Presents Killing It With Keywords we talk about getting your keywords right when you are publishing your book to Amazon.
Sheena is joined by author Anne Hagan as she explains:
- Using keywords in a series: Should you use the same ones or different ones?
- What is Amazon Advertising, formerly known as Amazon Marketing Services?
- How keywords for Amazon Ads work and how it’s different
- How do keywords work on other retailer platforms?
Listen to this episode here
Tools And Links Mentioned
Steel City Confidential by Anne Hagan
Publisher Jug Run Press LLC
Clients hide things from their lawyers all the time. Pam Wilson makes it an art form.
Pam’s been on the run from the law for years and she was getting away with it. The statute of limitations ran out on most of her crimes. For her spouse Charlotte? Not so much. Though they were aging, they looked forward to enjoying their golden years and, hopefully, forgetting about the past.
Life got complicated when Charlotte became gravely ill, their daughter got pregnant with the child of a married man…a married man someone took shots at from a rare motorcycle Pam happens to own. When the man was shot again and killed in his office at Pitt a couple of weeks later, the police found all signs pointing to Pam.
Rochelle ‘Ro’ Rabinowitz, a second-generation Pittsburgh lawyer, and her little firm take on Pam’s case pro-bono. Ro thinks it’s a slam dunk for the defense and hands the case off to her new associate and – she hopes – her future partner in the firm, Dominique, to get her feet wet in a courtroom. Clients are never completely honest with their lawyers and Ro and Dominque soon learn this one is no exception.
Slam dunk? More like a pipe dream…
(that link works for US, Canada and Germany)
Find Anne Hagan Online
please note this transcript has not been edited and is automatically generated meaning certain words will be incorrect.
[Music] all right welcome to the key to key words with Anne Hagen I’m Sheena and I’m joined today by the fantastic and Hagen author extraordinaire and keyword genius and she’s going to take us through some awesome things about Amazon keywords why they’re important how to use them and how to generally be a keyword rockstar and thank you for joining me today thank you for having me and today we’re talking about all sorts of exciting keyword related things including Series titles and whether or not to use the same keywords in a the same series right so let’s start with that work should you use the same keywords or different ones for each book in a series the short answer is yes and now yes use words that describe your overall series in the listing for each blog no don’t use all the same words that each book presumably situations in your blog can characters seasons setting and so forth or knowing your change and they do change the book so you want to have a set of keywords that actually reflects the content of each book as much as possible why don’t you want to catch those new things that might be of interest to a reader if you’ve done your job right within to retailer your series is going to be all linked together on on the book pages and so when a reader pulls up any given book in the series they’re going to see that there are other books in that series just full full new authors who haven’t written a series or don’t know so you contact Emma’s in and say these are the books in a series please link them yes correct and then they create this cool little like spread at the bottom saying this is the six books or the twelve books or the 600 books like ends really epic series right now the eleven books that’s still pretty epic okay so that’s what we’re talking about now in your mystery series right what are the keywords that you share across the series do you do you see something like mystery series or do you why yes yes I will share a mystery series sheriff because my investigator is a sharer okay you know those sorts of things you know that are the same across the series but then each story is different typically there’s a murder so I might use murder or some sort of crime so I’ll use pride but then things are different like like in one book an Amish character becomes very funny but not all Amish character isn’t in every book so I’m not going to use Amish across the boats but Amish characters are very intriguing to readers and so I certainly in the books where that plays in I want to have Amish so breaking Amish because I have a character that left the arch in one of the books that continues on into the series all right so the keywords that remain are the ones that are relevant to the entire series but then you have the book specific words now we get into the very complicated world of Amazon marketing and advertising and oh my gosh so let’s talk about Amazon advertising which is apparently formerly known as Amazon marketing services what is it one thing that you can do to get more visibility on Amazon for your box if you’re an indie author or you’re a small publisher in publish direct Amazon the Amazon e-book platform using Kindle direct publishing is you can run ads using Amazon advertising and you’re right the program did recently change names it used to be known as Amazon marketing services or AMS for short so your people that talk about AMS and that’s our AMS ads and that’s what they need Amazon advertising those are those sponsored product ads that appear on a book the spray paint right below the string books that are rated customers who bought this item also bot yeah there’s would be that string of books to show you what somebody else already bought and then below that our ads that are actually paid for by advertisers like authors like the my publishers and the large publishers use them there so now I am assuming that they also work with keywords but not necessarily the ones that you put in when you publish the book correct all right it’s a whole different ballgame Amazon is quite a bit different and we could spend hours on an Amazon advertising class I’ve actually given an Amazon advertising class and and I can make the show notes and all that available to your listeners from that what we’re going to talk about right now is just finding the keywords that drive those ads because there’s some similarities to how we find those seven keywords that those keywords we fill up those seven blocks with but there’s a lot of important differences about the way they work and how many you can actually have in that sort of thing okay for Amazon you’re paying for those Amazon ads by the click it’s what they call pay-per-click or PPC so you’re bidding on those keywords now because you’re paying the words and phrases that you can use are a lot less restrictive but there are some cautions first of all you get a thousand words phrases what they call longtail keywords and get a thousand you should strive when you’re building these ads to get 200 to 300 minimum keywords per ad and that doesn’t mean 300 actual words but words phrases longtail keywords which could be you know a stratum six seven eight words you want to have 200 the 300 at least to get your ads to show in that string of small engine products and what what they called that as showing is called an impression to get an impression it shows up on the screen you can potentially see it when you click on it is when whoever posted that at paste you know just them seeing it doesn’t doesn’t cost the advertiser anything but when they click on it and that’s that’s what cost the appetite you can’t get clicks or potential purchases on that page if you don’t get an impression in the first place so you have to have good keywords to get those impressions to get your books to show up your keywords that you use or exact match other than capitalization you don’t have to capitalize anything not capitalizing with it their exact match the word order for spelling for plurals and turn-by-turn more if you have three words strung together and a user types the first word and the third word and does it type that middle word you know in that exact string your books not going to show up it’s not mixing and matching those like there was with this seven more search boxes you’re not dealing with the a night over at all with these you know paying to play and so is everyone else that’s using the AdWords program so when you think of when you find a good keyword phrase or longtail keyword to use for those ads you also want to think about and check for other variations of that and how to use that and we’ll get to some examples here and then okay you see that this is not a strict in terms of the phrases you can use is this my sometimes when I will type in an author’s name and the competing authors will pop up oh yeah absolutely that’s why we go you can use the names of other authors who write similar books to write and same genre you might have similar themes you name it think about it this way the goal is to get your book to show up at the response with product strings when someone is looking at their book on other authors all right right and then for the same by the same token you can also use book titles for other books so when you type in another author’s book title yours can potentially show up in that sponsored product so it’s a whole different ballgame you gonna ideally want to do two sets of keyword research then the one for the organic search if you like where people type in you the phrases and it all mixes and matches and then the one where you’re gonna go look at who’s the top sellers who are the regular sellers who the big names in that category correct yes yeah if you’re going to run ads a lot of authors don’t run a lot of authors can’t run ads because they don’t own the book or publisher this the publisher has to let me ask but for an indie author or somebody that owns their own small press which is which is in a lot of cases and some some of our smaller presses in the LGBT arena will let authors have access to run ads on their books if they want to but you know for those authors yes you’re actually doing a completely different set of keyword research because you want to get into as you said the top sellers in your genre and you want to keep looking at that it’s a continuous thing because those has changed so you know you know one day you might have have the top 10 it might be one thing in three or four days later it might be completely different so you want to keep a fresh perspective of what folks are living around authors titles that sort of thing all right so how do we structure the tombs then since it has to be an exact match well you can put in the author name and the title but then readers will also search for things like all the name together with the book title and and that’s where a lot of your variations come in like that here’s title by like finding Sheila by an ad or an Hagin finding Sheila you know those those sorts of things are things that readers will actually type in looking for a specific book but then your book can show up down in those phones and product ads where the movement types that they in when you’re typing in your base search keywords and phrases and Amazon ads pay attention because it does sort of the same kind of thing that it does when you’re typing into the search bar on the website when you’re looking for Kindle books it pops up other things that are key phrases that readers search for on Amazon it pumps them up down there to it I must integrate with a nine somehow to do that but you know you can click add all phrases and then just take out the ones you really don’t want and all the ones that apply and take out ones that you really don’t want just just delete those and you know Amazon helps you find more strings than it knows that leaders have already typed into five bucks you can use program names in your long tail keywords of this and for example and Haven Kindle book so kimber looks fine and Hagee you can’t use those in your seven keywords you’re allowed to use the word Kindle but readers search for that and because you’re paying for grace using these words Amazon allows you to use those words in Kindle apps by the same token best-selling drillers or thrower bestsellers aren’t supposed to use best and that sort of thing because it’s subjective in your seven keywords but you can use them in ads because again your pain you can use punctuation in your ads all those authors that go by their initials put their names in in always listen without the periods in their initials so like B D space gates the period the period space gates B space deep space gates yeah the period space deep period space you know and and so you end up with five or six permutations of the same author’s name but readers search every way and take a popular author like indie author eighty Rabin’s a good example you know if you’re going to use if you’re writing romance and you want to have your books appear on pages with her books it’s to your advantage to spell her name every way you can think of you know to try and get on that page because you don’t know how readers go they make change you can use the names of well-known characters to read or search on characters I’ve used for my missions everything from this is Paula fax to Stephanie Plum I’ve Jane Wallace for Mellon marks Boggs Kinsey Millhone you name it I’ve sold once with every one of those keywords people search my dear that’s very interesting would you want to necessarily match up similar characters or just famous characters the farmers you mean by similar so if you’ve got a mystery with the main characters and old Diddy who noses in everybody’s business and is actually a mystery writer and you’re convinced cheated it’s but anyway that’s a personal experience yes yes you absolutely want to use characters that are similar to your characters you know I I will use the Jane Wallace character I used other other characters under lesbian you know cops and in sluis and all that and use them in my keywords some of them some of them do draw for me something some of them do not I have found for my specific characters Stephanie Plum Kinsey Millhone out of mainstream fiction you know they have a lot of women readers who have found some interest in my books because my characters yes they’re lesbians and they do lesbian things as well as they solve crimes you know there are good drawers to get some mainstream readers over to look at now I pay a lot for this tricks because obviously that’s that’s a character that’s much better men but then amongst the the lesbian characters there’s a lesser mom I don’t pay as much for this place you know I might pay pennies here in Kirkland to draw a reader over that searches on the name Jane modest as opposed to somebody that searching for Stephanie plum and I might pay $0.50 for that clip so so how do you make sure that those people buy then all you maximize your your sales between your you’ll click in your you know buy but it all comes down to the relevance of words you’re looking to get impressions down there in this bunch of products if people click on your ad after looking at the book that search problem – in the first place because remember they’ve been brought to that page for something else and now they’re looking down here at your book because they didn’t find what they were looking for up there have that book you’re going to show up down there in that string the average click-through rate on most keywords is under 1% so it’s not very high a good average is anything above 2% so and I’m talking over the impression you might have a thousand impressions and you might get 20 clicks 2% no I have one keyword it’s a longtail word that’s very specific to one of my books and the click-through rate for that book that keyword the people who see it and those tiny spawns of product ads and then click on it and get my book page this 29% that’s phenomenal and then of that 29% what’s the buy rate well I don’t have any way of knowing what specifically because Amazon does show me who went on to buy the book but there’s some lifetime sometimes between when that shows up and the other factor is if the book is in Kindle unlimited they may have downloaded the book and Amazon ads doesn’t show you that so I’m still getting paid because somebody is reading that book but Amazon ads isn’t set up to show you if a book is in Kindle unlimited whose radians right but you could be paying 50 cents and being earning like ten suits well it shows you the average of you know what the click cost you and what you’ve earned in terms of sales with that lag time obviously so you might get a click and then a week later or Amazon might finally post the sale so you know it’s not a good educator in that regard but if a book is in Kindle unlimited and you’re seeing hey I got 10 clicks on that book today and I had you know 2,000 page reads on that look today if it’s you named Kindle unlimited then then you know that’s a pretty good indicator that your ads working and that you’re getting readings on that book okay you don’t want to run ads where you’re seeing books that you know your ads are costing you 80% of what you’re making 90% of what you’re making but if you’re under 70% in its in can you you’re done yet it’s such a complicated system let me say something else though you put these keywords in the Amazon sponsored product that’s okay and and a good for example is the keyword that I just met it’s got a twenty nine percent click-through rate when people get to that page but a really good keyword somebody is typing into that that Amazon search bar and they typically don’t get a specific book a page comes up that has a bunch of books that they can choose from and they go down through and they look for the one that looks most relevant to them and they choose that if your keyword that you’re paying for once it gets the sponsored products is really good your book will show up on that page first and they might click and go directly to your book and that didn’t cost you anything that’s just gravy because they’ve gone directly to your book right out of the Amazon search bar they’re all in your book page where everybody else has sponsored product books or gendell let me get okay but hopefully they will buy your book that way the click didn’t cost you anything because they found it out of normal search so you want to really use your best keywords if you’re running Amazon ads you want to make sure that you’ve got as many combinations and keywords for a specific book as you can out of those thousand I’ll typically run 600 700 words and come up with all kinds of things that people will type in up there some of which will find my book directly I hope I haven’t paid anything you’re listening to the lesbian talk show the lesbian talk show calm you have of podcast information and are you keeping track of what is working and what’s not working and changing them out oh yes absolutely some keywords you’ll find that Amazon will give a lot of impressions too because it finds it relevant and you know they won’t get any clicks I’ll just turn them off because obviously they’re not relevant other other keywords will get a lot of clicks but don’t seem to generate any sales costs a lot you know because maybe you’ve used a popular author’s name but you know thinking that it’s relevant to your book but you don’t seem to be getting any sales you know going going into that and page reads if it’s in Kindle unlimited may not be high for that book so you’ll want to turn that word off because it’s costing you money and it’s not generating you anything it does make sense eventually you’re going to want to go get to a point where say you use a few hundred and several hundred keywords and then add and you’re always adding to them because you know as we talked about new books come into those top 100 new authors come onto the scene and so forth and you want to try out those names those titles those sorts of things you’ll want to take and parse out the ones that perform best for you and start the new man especially if you start getting close to that fat thousand limit you know and just keep trying things keep your ads fresh and all of that keep trying your keywords and that sort of thing and parsing out the ones that work the best for you and eliminating the ones that don’t because even if you turn a keyword off in an ad you’ve still used that space so once you start butting up against that thousand you didn’t get keep adding just because you’ve turned some off so you have to start do that so it always pays to keep your ads going and keep keep breaking it down to the stuff that works best for you and that means that you really have to keep track to Amazon usually kind of a history but it doesn’t tell you day-to-day on you’ve got this many clicks today or you’ve got this many clicks this week you have to watch that and see when you know something has stopped performing or something has picked up and all of that I try and look at my ads every day just make sure there are no surprises something that’s gone crazy costed me a lot of money like I’m generating anything and by the same token I tried once a week to download my stuff and analyze it to see you know because a certain key won’t slow down has a certain one picked up that sort of thing once costed me overall as opposed to what I’m making so it’s not it’s not set it and forget but your seven key word boxes or your listing can be set it and forget because they’re not really going to change that much they might change a little bit there might be you might come up with some hot do you know keyboard strain that you want to include instead of something else and you might want to change them but really they don’t change but these are more driven by what readers are searching for right now and so then change constantly you want to keep on top of that this is complicated stuff it is but it’s fun too I think it depends on your your version of fun of spending money and sweating about whether or not key words is working for you then yes but actually I think I do see your point it’s fun to figure it out and and make it really work and then when you see something working there must be this huge sense of satisfaction like a look at this I made this work I’m selling books it’s exciting the most fun thing about it though is you go in and you pick you know like I said I typically by the time that I’m done setting up a new ad I the dot 600 550 to 600 keywords in it to start with and you throw it up there and it starts getting hits and you start seeing a few days later you never know what readers are going to search for and you just throw crazy things out there you know maybe this will work maybe this will work and you start seeing clicks and sales and Kindle unlimited page reads if you’re in Kindle unlimited for terms that you never would’ve thought you know I just threw that in there because you know I and I’ll give you a for a good for example I had a book take off and sell multiple copies using Gregory ash as one of my keywords he’s an author and he writes male male fiction and and for whatever reason you just over know or you know you don’t put some obscure all their name in and the click might cost you two cents and somebody bought the book for $4.99 or $5.99 or whatever it was it’s like pasta cheese sex with it’s like haha other author’s name nobody else is using there’s like a little victory dance that goes with you use key words like that you know that is awesome okay where are we in we were talking I have been here I’m going to other retail and platforms and that sort of thing and we did talk about that in the first session we didn’t really get into how Google Play works my beefs with horns and there will surge and you know but no other platform has advertising that you could buy into the Ramazan guys you can buy Google AdWords advertising free books I don’t know a whole lot of people that do that big publishers to that and authors like James Patterson that you know he self-published ISM know he has 90 authors that White’s with so he releases a new book every day you know and they buy Google Adwords and all that sort of thing that you know I I don’t know a whole lot of indie authors small publishers that do that you know the only other thing that I had really had posted to talk about was you know how Google Play works for all those that are on that and then platform of words and it was horrible I I can understand why go Family Research is awful it’s just awful and it’s never improved that every new every new management that they come under all that they’ve never improved it and then wonder why they can’t so much well the whole system is terrible though I try to become an affiliate of these because I was like well let me give people options just to wait to buy and they wouldn’t let me it’s very easy to list the book for not and I used to sell a lot of books for not you know I know people out there still owned books but it just think they stopped supporting it and they’ve never improved search I can type my name in and not find my books you know I can type them around though mysteries and maybe blend will come up and a whole bunch of other things that not related there’s eleven books in the series if you think book it’s four it’s awesome and every author says its humble if they could just improve that and you know Google’s probably staff getting offered to help he’s helped them improve that you know for a price they just never happened now put any money into it you know physical stores are failing and all I – it’s no wonderful wonder dealt there ok so let’s talk about Google Play and iBooks and Kobo in terms of keywords did they like somebody tourism yes and then they all offer you the ability to put keywords in and most of them most of the other platforms give you at least ten minutes but they are like Amazon in the Amazon years you have bought you can put 50 characters in the other retailers are specific strings one to a you know if they limit you to ten then it’s ten keywords or ten strings of keyword phrases and that’s it that’s all that you can get if you go through an aggregator because a lot of authors that have their books published wide across retailers can use an aggregator like smashwords or draft2digital or one of those a distributor they typically limit you to ten because so many of the other popups on the tab and you have even less flexibility them because since they’re distributing to all platforms you can’t use things that might be specific of one Google Play is the best example of that Google Play uses if you can upload your back to them with your books obviously they’re using the Google search process for newer stuff so not only are you putting ten keywords in there but you also have all of googles so you want to make sure that you know your book descriptions and all of that sort of thing and if you’ve got you know a Google profile and you’ve done everything with Google that you can’t to get yourself found with Google because the platform pulls all of that in the problem with Google Play is that only take so many new authors at the time and you might be an old author and that you’ve had books out for years I’ve tried multiple times to get into Google Play direct and can’t I have to go through an aggregator that has access to Google Play to have my books listed I have to go through draft2digital street level there’s there’s several that the key analyst is what some people play but then of course Google Play takes its cut and that aggregator takes its cut you know which which is fine to get my books listed there because they sell a lot of books but it would be so much better because I would have more flexibility with keywords and all that if I could this directly and that canvas directly with them managed to get in one of the times that they did open it up for 20 minutes to hit the new authors as it has a big advantage with them and wonder why they doing that that’s such a strange business model they had a problem with piracy I want to say three or four years they were trolling really trying to limit the piracy problems that amazon has been fighting in some of these other platforms have been fighting it was so easy for people to upload to all of these platforms and I don’t know that they were necessarily checking for plagiarism at that time you know where Amazon runs he books through a plagiarism checker supposedly you know that they they weren’t checking for that and they were giving a lot of pirated books so they shut down to two new authors entirely and didn’t take part of anybody for almost a year and a half and then they started opening up you know you could you can put in an application and has to be notified when it had been backed up but you know they would they would open back up to selectively authors a bigger backup for a day you basically have to sit on there the submissions page and just see when it comes open and submit again so then again and you know they only take so many at a time okay you’re working through a lot more aggregators they’re just started with draft2digital gear at the past year they weren’t one of the providers before that had access to Google Play because these aggregators these distributors they vet hold the books the Danya and Google’s putting trust in them to not feed them stuff is plagiarized you had a lot of issues on Amazon through the Kindle unlimited / then move book stuffing well people would put three thousand pages together and then and then find a way to trick people into going to the end of the book so it looked like it ran all three thousand pages of me but paying for that that sort of thing Google wanted to know that they do that is by controlling who they but indirectly and having everybody else comes in lots of books on that side Apple is it with being on iBooks absolutely I you know I have recently pulled my own books back from being wide temporarily where everything’s in Kindle unlimited right now because of things that are going on in my life that don’t allow me the time to deal with all these other platforms but Apple is great why not my books were wide eye so they were they were my second highest self after AIDS and when I was advertising I did so probably 50% if I sold 100 on Amazon I did sell 50 on Apple as well for something that I advertised iPhone users specifically buy books compete on the fence so it is worth it to be there now there are a couple barriers there you have to own an Apple computer to listen to them directly or buy a cheap netbook air I have one back here just just so I can list Apple the the other factor is that all of the distributors list to them and that works great too I sold books even one before I bought it back for blowing through draft2digital and listing on Apple I still sold a lot the thing that that is nice about being able to list directly to sites like Apple cowbugs specifically as they learn all sorts of formations and you can only participate if your book is listed directly if you go through a distributor you don’t have those options because you know the distributor is actually the one that’s publishing you up to that so no you don’t have direct control site so you can’t participate in it in a sale or promotion they’re doing that buy two get one free let’s say Kobo does that like to get one free the author still gets paid the full price in Kobo texts you can’t participate in that sort of stuff that Alan does all kinds of promotions all the time I it is but worth it to me and our search engine is pretty robust it doesn’t work the same as Amazon’s obviously but I find that when I go out there when when all my books are listed with Apple I go out there I find all my books so keywords fool fool these guys are they kind of like the keywords for the ads you have to be very specific there’s no switching you can change them out but you know most in most cases you’re limited to 10 and yes to a specific string you know so so it becomes important to really not only look up your keywords but look up what’s going to work best you want to go into a tool like Google AdWords to see how many searches are on that or Kindle Samurai to see how many people are actually buying that on Kindle because they’ve provided for Kindle they’re going to buy it an apple they’re gonna buy it at iBooks Kobo yeah that sort of thing you want to look at KTP pocket and see what’s the performance of that because somebody that’s searching on the Amazon search engine under that term if there are an apple buyer you know that expire or the Google Play buyer or that sort of thing they’re going to use the same sort of search terms on those sites so you want to look for the things that perform best overall and use those terms on the other sites where you want limited we talked about Amazon ads you don’t have those options with the other retailers there’s no option to run ads that appear below your books and that sort of thing Amazon is kind of cornered the market on Google Play we’ll post other things on your page and I believe Barnes & Noble does at times but their first search engine is at business were busted they on always Melvin 250 your books I don’t know how much they draw people away from you Google Google’s better at that obviously you can’t you can’t pay to be down there unless your pains and you’ve got to patreon account yes 10s about dates I I have a patreon account that I actually said that patreon changed there a fee structure here a few months back and they were yeah patreon was something I had considered doing especially when I saw doors for the lesbian review and and a couple other offers that I’m very familiar with that wasn’t set up but I thought that’s something I might like to do down the line and I was prompted to do that by getting it done before the fee structure changed and I earn less as a creator my you know coming in later on did that old fee structure so I set it up got it got it all galley and unfortunately I haven’t paid a whole lot of attention to it I’ve been busy with so many other things but it’s something that I want to build up over time and then try and have a little bit of help from you you got me a couple of new patrons here a week or so ago although I’m very grateful for thank you that you know it’s my mother right now is my biggest supporter because she was all my books in paperback as soon as they come out and she lives four hours away from me it’s uh it’s hard for me to get there and give them to her you know I she says at least this way I can get you to mail them Jimmy Pacific but yeah I only have a handful of patrons right now I think there’s ten I’ll slowly build that up it’s one of the things that I plan to focus on going forward you get exclusive content and sneak peeks and depending on your tear your circuit like stories and stuff so I recommend that you go and and sign up for its patreon slash and Hagan and the links that will be in the show notes and there’s also an extremely big contributor in the lyric sector just in generally in helping people in promote people in helping new authors in just being a generally awesome person so she’s worth supporting and we can people find you online my website is an Hagan author calm and ESA and and II I’m one of those weird ones that spells it with an e that’s my mother salt and I had I’m on Twitter as an Hagan I am also on Facebook as an Hagan you find me on pinterest has it and taken what’s your website and hagen author ian hagen author calm and and you’ve just released your latest book which is still city confidential which is entertaining read about what happened if they’ll men do we survived and now we looking couple years down the line we’re looking 27 years now 27 years down the line and it’s a legal thriller and it’s got a big cost of very cool interesting characters and i suggest you go check that out at you if you enjoy what we do on the lesbians work show consider becoming a patron your support helps us grow and reach more listeners not only that but you get exclusive contents that’s all for this episode bye [Music]